March 7, 2019 at 3:46 am #73888
One of my biggest dilemmas is: DO I LEAVE MY ES MONEY? My daughter is wonderful, and calls and visits. BUT, what is the right thing that Jesus wants me to do? I have a feeling Jesus would say to forgive him and show him kindness. Maybe my soft heart will change HIS heart.
Do I show my son that even though he is a jerk, that I was NOT, and he gets money?
Or, since you want really nothing to do with me, then why would you get any?
I am not that old, but things happen you know, and I want to know what I should tell my husband and or sister to do in case of accidental death.
March 7, 2019 at 7:38 am #73893
Beloved, I think you should not let the sunset on something that needs to be done. Do it now, there may not be a tomorrow. The proudest thing for a parent are their children. You always think your children will be the best part of you. Should you leave an inheritance to estranged desendents because it is expected? Rejection is the #1 fear of most people. Is one of the reason we suffer so much when our precious children turn i
us out. Omitting inheritance would be a form of rejection. Possibly an effort to control or punish. Leaving your daughter everything and your ES nothing will surely cause a riff of resentment between them. Maybe you can skip your ES and bestow on your ES grandchildren if any. Consider the deserving, a niece or nephew or a loving friend. If he expects to be recognized in a will and does not, not will it be a surprise or will he understand why? I intend to leave everything to charity, I really have been through a lot of rejection by various family members, not just my ED, but sister and brothers. I maybe the cause, it maybe them. My family is very disfunctional, not particularly supportive of each other or financially successful. It appears to me just about every effort I had made to aid my ED, in the form of money, cars, furniture, down payment on a home etc. etc. have been discarded. She has gotten rid of it all, kept nothing I gave. I don’t want my hard earned little bit of inheritance be wasted or thrown away, so then charity. When thinking about what to do, I keep recalling the J Paul Getty selfish obsession with his money greed over his grandson’s kidnaping. I want to do something unselfish and enrich the deserving.
March 7, 2019 at 2:01 pm #73896
I just been through this. Sheris book addresses it. I would sit on the matter until you have some clarity.
I sadly took my daughter out of mine. After months of praying and discussing. Maybe you could leave a token gift for children.
I have given my daughter lots of jewellery and gifts over years.
So I am at peace with my decisions.
Things can be changed later if needs.
What is your gut telling u
March 7, 2019 at 2:03 pm #73897
My son was given over 800000 as a child by my parents. I was co owner of the account. When he turned 21 he took me off the account and ran through the money on cars, booze and who knows what. When he needed to buy a house he asked me to cosign I foolishly bought it for him 300000. He graduated college and grad school debt free as my parents paid for everything including generous living allowances in addition to room board and books. He has a masters degree in a good field from a highly rated university so he has the ability to make a good living thanks to my parents. When he was going with a bimbo for lack of a better term mom wrote out of her will after asking him to reconsider and being disrespected in reply. He did not know she did yet when she was dying refused to go and see her. Since then we have gifted him tens of thousands of dollars, paid medical and dental bills, paid for repairs to his home including over 7000 last year and in return we are ignored.
He lied about the cars he was wasting cash on sometimes 4 luxury high end cars at once while saying he drive a Civic.
I hold the entire large inheritance mom left me. It is a very large amount and I often wonder what my mom would do and say. I think of the letter I recently found and how she disliked howxge disrepected me as I was a good mom.
I truly never expected to have to feel as I do. The money I could leave my son would allow him to live the wonderful life my husband and I live yet I ask, does he deserve it? Does 13 years of disrespect t deserve a Reward? The answer is no.
Does our GS deserve anything? Well we will never know him although I bet he will told what rotten people we are so the answer to thatvus No also
We love cats my husband saud cats are better than people and my husband is a proud veteran and we love the Sempre Fi fund which we made a large donation to in honor of my mom. Those are worthful causes that will be the beneficiary of our estate
It is sad to feel that way. It is not being vindictive it is just wanting a lot of cash to go estate tax free to worthy causes.
March 7, 2019 at 2:04 pm #73899
While I won’t speak for Jesus, but I can offer an opinion based on his interactions and statements to various “Inflicters of pain”, the dis-compassionate, judgemental and self-righteous. It is more likely that Jesus would harshly rebuke your ES for regarding himself as deserving to benefit from the death of a parent that he so boldly rejected.
Allow your mind to rest on the parable of the Prodigal Son. The wayward son returned to his father expressing deep remorse and willingness to be his father’s servant. The son was forgiven, adorned with a robe and ring, and his return was marked with a celebration. The son who remained loyal to his father expressed his concerns. The father’s response may be of interest to you.
“Then his father said, ‘Son, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.” ~ Luke 15:31
The choice right for you will offer you peace. And my hope is that yours will be right for you.
March 7, 2019 at 2:05 pm #73900
My husband and I met with an estate attorney this week. Here’s her recommendations for us. She suggested since we don’t want DIL to have any access to inheritance through our ES, that we ‘gift’ our ES a token amount of money, like $5-10K, and set up a trust fund for his children with our ES remaining inheritance, managed by an outside agency. By ‘gifting’ our ES a token amount, there is less likelihood of him contesting the will/trust. His children would have access to the money, managed through the outside agency, for tuition and other educational purposes at age 18. If there is money left over after completing their education, that left over money would be donated to a charity.
The remaining 1/2 of our estate inheritance goes directly to our other adult child. This allows for both AC to receive equal amounts, just designated differently.
For us, this seems like a good plan so as to not cause any resentment between our two adult children. That certainly is not our intention.
March 7, 2019 at 2:53 pm #73912
“Do not give that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn around and tear you in pieces” (Matthew 7:6, HBFV).
I don’t know your story well enough, beloveddaughter, but I am also a Christian. I see Jesus as taking a stand against people doing wrong, such as when he overturned the tables in the temple, or touched the people who were less than in that society that others wouldn’t touch.
Giving money does not make unkind people into kind people and suddenly become wonderful, changed human beings upon inheriting money. Only the individual can change himself, should he ever want to change.
And showing kindness can mean that we have to set boundaries and do what is called tough love. Showing kindness might mean we have to take a stand against abuse because this is teaching someone about consequences. We may have to turn over the table in someone’s temple.
When we pander to the abusive person, we can also create resentment in the good adult child. They did everything right, were kind and helpful, but they got no credit for doing the right thing. Everybody got the trophy even those who sabotaged the race. So when we think of “fair”, let’s consider fair to the good adult children who did the right thing by us.
Every one of us decides what we think is best as individuals so this is something that is okay whatever you chose. I would say examine it from all angles and then do what feels right for you.
For me, I thought about this for a long while and changed my beneficiaries in my retirement accounts to 10% for each ED and 80% for the good loving helpful kind son. Originally, it was 1/3 to each. My husband and I have legal wills that give everything to each other and he has chosen deliberately to bypass his ES entirely. (Generally, in the USA, retirement savings accounts go outside the will so one sets the beneficiaries to inheritance within the account.) My husband feels that ES chose to reject him as father and this pushes him out of inheritance plus, our ES will not benefit from having money he did not earn due to the ES’s personality. I have wanted him to redo his will to include some small token for his ES (so as to head off a legal challenge by the ES) but now I am thinking that the emotional energy and angst that my husband will have to put towards changing his will is not in my best interests.
March 7, 2019 at 4:32 pm #73914
It took almost a year to decide if we should omit our ES from our wills, but we did. Our son divorced his second wife and married someone we do not know. With his bad track record for relationships, who knows how many other marriages there will be. We decided to leave everything we have to our daughter and let her decide how to distribute it when we are gone. We do not want some stranger to benefit from all we have worked for. Our ES does not communicate with our daughter either. We trust her to make the right decisions. Our son has a 7 year old that we can only Skype with when he is with our ex-daughter-in-law. My daughter has promised to make sure that he will receive a portion of our estate.
We also made our daughter our medical proxy. That’s something you need to think about in case you are unable to make medical decisions for yourself.
I know it’s hard. You have to do what is best for YOU!
March 7, 2019 at 8:18 pm #73942
You have all given me much to think about. Now, to let it soak in.
Thank you all.
March 8, 2019 at 12:44 am #73971
Yellow Rose’s response sums it up for me too. Sadly, we meet with our attorneys to finish up the end of our ‘end of life decisions’ next week. This has been very difficult for me, despite the fact I am facing complete silence from two daughters, I still have love for them. I step away from that mothers heart, and look at our situation. My daughters not only left us, with no explanation, they took 5 gc, who were very close to the entire family. Next Thurs, the process of completely writing out my two estranged daughters out of inheritance will become a reality. Not because I am angry. Not because I am hurt. Not because I want retribution. I think I have pretty much reconciled all these things, and I waited to make sure that wasn’t my motivation. I have two children who have stood up and said no to their craziness. In that process, they were discarded also. My two ED’s have made it very clear this estrangement is permanent as far as they are concerned. No contact whatsoever in almost one year, one was married, one had a baby recently. They have made it abundantly clear they do not want to be my daughters in this life. Now I will finally do the unthinkable and recognize this in a legal manner. I do not need to leave tangible things in a will to ‘prove their worth or my love to them’. I spent many years showing them that, in many ways. If those years didn’t show them, nothing I could leave them would ‘prove it’ I have asked my oldest daughter to share some of my personal items with my gc, and I feel certain she will. I will not include my gc in any legal document, just my personal wishes with my executor. I will finish some letters, and hope they remember the memories. These women who are my daughters, I do not recognize them. I wish them well but am moving on. God bless all of us who are facing down these type of decisions, it is hard.
March 15, 2019 at 7:49 pm #74578
I resonate with you, 2soon. There is something in this for me about needing to let go of “proving” that I love ED. As someone said to my husband recently, if she doesn’t know you love her by age 30, after you’ve been a fabulous parent and seen her through some horrendous things, then she’s not going to know based on this one thing. The “one thing” wasn’t inheritance, but the principle is the same….chasing them in death to prove love doesn’t feel right to me. If I choose to keep them in my will, it will be for other reasons.
March 8, 2019 at 7:48 pm #74037
Thank you for that also, 2soon.
I feel much closer after all your comments, to make a decision.
March 9, 2019 at 4:05 am #74064
Since my marital separation, I entrusted my son with everything, until events prior to my estrangement caused a need to protect myself. During a brief stay at his aunts, my personal records were stolen and my privacy violated. Then, she proceeded to unlawfully disclose the information without realizing that the records in the pending file were not factual. Luckily, the majority of my financial records was in a safe located in a storage facility.
At the time, my living situation was in a state of flux. But once settled, I intended to apprise my son of my estate matters and give him a key and the combination to my safe. My ES is unaware of my insurance policies and the contents of my safe.
Initially, the pain from his betrayal wanted him disinherited. But as advised in Sheri’s book, it is wise to wait before making those decisions, and I agreed. But my end of life estate planning remains in a state of limbo so to speak.
My guy friend believes it is best that my ES is unaware of my insurance policies and the contents of my safe. He believes that beneficiaries should not realize the value of the estate. He has no interest in superficial relationships and abhors those who abuse executor power and use their parents to benefit from their estate.
However, time is drawing near for me to attend to these matters. I believe one full year is a reasonable amount of time. It will coincide with the date of his email to me. I never imagined having a need to do this.
March 9, 2019 at 4:57 am #74069
Isn’t it awful to have your personal information violated? Especially with a once trusted family member? My ED diug up all our financial records in an attempt to secure money.,At the time, I didn’t know her house was in foreclosure. Not that it mattered as we couldn’t afford to bail her out, and it was her problem that her “husband” was refusing to work., On a side note, our lawyer suggested we make a provision in our will for a TOD for our house in our son’s name. With that, it can’t be contested or wind up in probate. (Transfer on Death). It remains in our name until we die, but will be secured by only him. In our remaining years we need to protect ourselves. EDs behavior demonstrates how low she will go. Mjmom
March 9, 2019 at 7:46 am #74074
Mjmom, yes it is awful. She is beyond untrustworthy. A coworker took a break and she stole a picture of his privates from his phone and sent it to herself. Then the stupid fool shows it to people with the giggle of a 5 year old, but she is 50 (??). Boundaries, rules, policies and the law mean nothing to a person as troubled and disturbed as her. Her sociopathy was captured on surveillance video. She had financial issues as well, most likely to fund her prescription drug addiction. Scary!
Given the ruthlessness of your ED, you are wise to protect your son’s interests (not to mention the value of avoiding probate). Your mention of the TOD will serve as valuable information for parents that have another child’s interest to protect as well. Very wise and most appreciated!
March 10, 2019 at 3:35 pm #74123
I have a will but am considering changing it too. I have flip flopped over the decision for several years now. Since none of my children want to be part of my life or have me in theirs, I am determined to spend it all before I go! But, should my money outlast me, I am wondering if simply giving it all to charity is the right move. Frankly, it feels wrong to leave my kids money and wrong not too. I am also a Christian, familiar with the parables found in the previous posts. I certainly don’t want to reward or enable sinful behavior, but it is very painful for me to put them out of my will also as it feels to me that I will be saying I no longer love them and of course I still do. I just can’t bring myself to make a decision so I’m leaving it for now. In a couple years, if nothing changes, I guess I will have to make a decision too. I’m not looking forward to it.
March 11, 2019 at 1:31 am #74142
in my experience, this issue of inheritance, Wills and Trusts was the most painful of too many punishing E issues. It called for confronting the last tattered bits of hope with the finality of a certain harshness produced with ink on paper. Reviewing documents, seeing the reality of broken relationships expressed in legal terms and recognizing the losses in new ways was a life event I could not have prepared myself for emotionally. I mean, how do you attest to a lost, living child without being crushed by the inherent finality in the process?
I was as ready as I could be by life circumstances. And, I was fortunate in having a compassionate attorney who did not hurry me through these minefields. I would hope that everyone here on this thread has the same supportive help.
Yes, these papers can be changed should circumstances also change. I suspect those of us who’ve reached this place have done so after long consideration and wrestling with what ‘is,’ not with what we dreamt of or hoped for with our children.
Each of us will have our own specific decisions to make about our EC, but all of us will be further scarred by this heavy task. My heart goes out to each of you. This is a very difficult place to be on the journey to healing.
March 11, 2019 at 2:23 pm #74149
Fresh start, this is where I also struggle. I am only 55, and healthy, so I have time in that aspect, but shit happens, you know.
I am tending to air on the side of rewarding the good children. I have stuff already set up for my granddaughter.
March 11, 2019 at 4:10 pm #74183
I went through this same dilemma. While I don’t have a lot to leave I wanted to make sure If was ironed out what went where. After a lot of reflection I decided at this time to not leave anything to my ES…I can always add him back in at a later date if things change. My thought was why should I leave anything to him when he wants nothing to do with me and could care less how I’m doing
Just my 2 cents but do what you feel you need to do for your personal situation
March 11, 2019 at 9:40 pm #74223
I share in your concerns and understand your position completely.
The notary and the post office clerk can attest that revoking my son as POA was a difficult task. The reality that my son would not act in my best interests was hard to accept. I completed the exercise in Sheri’s book, and realized that I was not ready to disinherit him. My gosh. If only I was the horrible person that my son believes …
There are parents who use their Will as a means to control and manipulate their children. The last testament to their existence is an act of vindictiveness and spite, how sad a life.
When an adult makes the choice to disown their parent, isn’t an inheritance also a factor? When I detest someone to the degree of wanting no contact, I do not want nor do I expect an inheritance when they die. Will someone please throw me a bone of common sense … please????
An executor to a will or successor to a trust needs to be someone that you have contact and can communicate, right?
* If you regard your Will as a testament of your love for your children, then disinheriting requires no love in your heart for them.
* If you regard your Will as rule of reward and punishment, then disinheriting requires a reason to punish and a reason to reward.
* If you regard your Will as testament of your life, then you want it to benefit those who valued it most (your life). Disinheriting requires the realization that our life is of no value to our child.
There is no right or wrong decision, and so much depends on our individual circumstances as well as our own regard of the role of our Will.
“At this time”, is also a wise approach. You may not have a lot (at this time), but what you have is yours, and (at this time) your life is of no value to him. I see nothing wrong with wanting what little you have to benefit those who valued you. To me, that is everything right.
March 11, 2019 at 9:41 pm #74225
I have one thing to add to what I said previously. I am also only 56, and healthy. Despite that, I am aware every single day how things change on a dime. My oldest daughters profession is one that when she goes to work, its because there has been a tragedy and always unexpected. We talk daily about her job, mostly because its hard as hell and she needs to be able to express it to someone. I no longer take any day I have for granted. That being said, I feel the sooner I wrap things up legally the sooner I can get it off my mind. If there is significant changes in my relationships with two ED’s, I can make changes again. This is for me….for now. I have no idea what the future holds and so I can only respond to the present. Its a difficult thing to accept, and I do not envy anyone facing this dilemma. Every single aspect of estrangement has been HARD. I wish you peace as you make decisions.
March 11, 2019 at 9:42 pm #74228
I have written my daughter out. Not out of spite or anger, but because, as someone said “it’s the sensible thing to do.” I don’t want my other beneficiaries to get less. Because of the way she has treated me, I don’t want her to go through my things after I’m gone. I told her so in my last email when I told her I had removed her as executor in case my husband and I died at the same time (she was still a beneficiary at that point). I really expected her to reply as I did when the topic came up with my own mother, and as my son replied to me, “It’s your money and your stuff, I hope you live to be a 100 and use it all up.” Instead, she cut me off and went on a rampage to destroy me.
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.” Maya Angelou (thank you to whoever first posted that quote).
March 14, 2019 at 8:48 pm #74515
BeeHere4Me has very good points. I read it 3 times.
and I love the Maya Angelou quote.
March 15, 2019 at 12:31 am #74522
A friend forwarded me a list of the the guidelines of “Going No Contact with a NMom.” I’ll share the one relevant to this thread. But before I do, please know that this trend rings shallow to me.
The guidelines for “No Contact” were largely a result of the hard work of Sandra L. Brown, M.A., the founder of The Institute for Relational Harm Reduction & Public Pathology Education. It was part of her treatment plan to help abused women break free of pathological relationships, and was NEVER intended to be used against a parent.
Anyway, these trendy EC are instructed not to accept any gifts from their EP because doing so implies reconciliation. Further, gifts are regarded as methods used as tools to manipulate AC. According to their own guidelines, any acceptance of money, gifts or cards from the EP is breaking “No Contact.”
My girlfriend offered the conclusion that any money or gifts of any kind from our estates, will be regarded as tools to manipulate the AC to break “No Contact.” 🚫
March 15, 2019 at 12:33 am #74529
This is the second time you have made me laugh in the last couple of days.
March 15, 2019 at 12:37 am #74526
I am going to complete final paperwork next week. We have settled on a TOD ( transfer on death) in our son’s name. No probate, no reading of the will. No contesting, everything is just then in his name. Daughters will have no idea what the net worth is, as they cannot contest it. Our son knows any monies he doesn’t use can be turned over to whatever charity he wants. My personal and husband’s are in a locked safe with the key going to POA. I feel good that the reading of a will is not an option. If things change, we will readjust. Right now we feel this is the best course for us. I don’t have to inform anyone else and cause turmoil. I wouldn’t put it past either of daughters to claim us incompetent to grab control. I sleep much better now with the acceptance of what is. Mjmom
March 15, 2019 at 12:39 am #74534
Yes. It is a good feeling to have the finalities resolved. Good for you, MjMom. Now, hug your sweet puppy (mine is such a comfort).
March 15, 2019 at 7:50 pm #74589
Funny how this thing I am going to tell you about, happened today.
My daughter, who is wonderful and kind, called crying that her car had been stolen. She was only 7K from paying it off and used her savings last week to pay off all her credit cards. Her car was the only thing left with debt. She has full coverage, so the remainder of her car will be paid off.
I thought about all of our convos on here and told her that I would love to give her the money for a down payment on another one, enough to take her debt back to where it is currently.
I told her I will just give her some of her inheritance now.
She was hysterical with surprise, relief and happiness.
So, the good child is already reaping the benefits.
I told her that if she talked to her brother, my ES, not to let him know. It could cause problems for HER.
March 15, 2019 at 10:41 pm #74596
The theft was no fault of her own, and she was responsible by having the vehicle fully insured. The pleasure of seeing her benefit from this help will be missed once you’re in the grave. Its good that your daughter is able to appreciate it.
I felt so much joy seeing my children pleased with something I gave to them. But it made the time when I had no income difficult for me.
It may be wise to teach her the practice of maintaining confidentiality of her financial information. This way she won’t have to lie or risk someone else telling her brother. Its her private business and not open for discussion (period). If she is your only other child, this practice will benefit everyone in the long run.
Its good that you were able to assist her.
March 16, 2019 at 8:26 pm #74626
She IS my only other child. She assured me that she will not tell my son, and they really have no other mutual people. BeeHere, those were thoughts I had already had. Great minds think alike.
I am very secure knowing I am making a good decision for both of us.
March 16, 2019 at 8:28 pm #74628
Last year I decided to change my will to my younger son and just list my twoother grandchildren in my will instead of my older ES. We haven’t had contact for almost three years and he and his wife really don’t need my money. Last week I went on my son’s FB page and saw that in his profile he listed his mother-in-law as his mother. There was no listing of him having a father or a brother. I was shocked. I don’t know if it was worse having someone else listed as your role or not being listed at all. I showed it to my husband and his first reaction was to change our will again. We have made an appointment with our attorney for next week. We have a small education fund for each of our four grandchildren and we intend to leave our inheritance to our younger son who is a delightful child, has a wonderful wife and his two children who are the joy of our lives. Our other two grandchildren frankly don’t probably remember us as they are 7 and 3. I’ve only held my grandson twice in his life.
I know that my son is narcissistic and this is the cause of his estrangement. Making this decision hasn’t been easy but I think once it is done, it is done. I don’t see him making amends with us because his personality tends to make him believe he hasn’t done anything wrong. It has always been that way but my love for him as he grew up masked it. I’ve had a lot of time to go through the events of his life to see that frankly he has always had these character flaws. He has become a stranger to me and I sometime wonder if I love the little boy but not the man.
March 16, 2019 at 10:50 pm #74644
“I don’t see him making amends with us because his personality tends to make him believe he hasn’t done anything wrong.” ~Jillian
It is wise to be realistic. If he has narcissistic traits, it is unlikely he will be able to accept that he did anything wrong, especially his own mother. In fact, the stronger his traits, the greater his need to blame you. My ES went to great lengths to blame me.
I adored my little boy and he grew to be a truly wonderful young man. But during the last 4 years, he became someone who can’t even face me.
We are better off facing reality, no matter how bitter it is.
March 17, 2019 at 3:40 am #74659
We have changed our wills so that everything is put into two trusts, given out in small amounts per year none to narcisstic dil. And the rest in trust for grandchildren and the rest to charity. We might change it again but that’s how it is now. This estrangement with my son resulted when his wife found out we were not leaving our estate to him alone. Since that day she has done everything to destroy him to hurt us. I have never seen such a change in a man as in my once kind compassionate son. Heartbreaking. As a friend of mine said after meeting dil “much wants more”. For each of us , I believe we will know the right thing to do.
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